7.21.2010

"They Don't Care"...a Guest Post

About the writer: Witchsistah.  Born Oct. 8, 1968 in Chicago, IL. Went to Washington University in St. Louis, graduated May 1990, BA, majored in French. Traveled abroad twice during college to study said French. Also speak German, some Russian and a little Irish Gaelic. Moved from Chicago to Phoenix, AZ in Dec. 2000. Realized the enormous mistake that was and moved to Kansas City, MO in May 2002. Married The Man on May 24, 2008. Mommie to one dog, black, Chow-mix named Biddie.
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On the thread “Question Asked; Question Answered” here, I made a rather long, wordy-as-fuck ass comment.  Ankhesen cut and highlighted this portion of it:

So I'm going to ask Black women to just leave so-called anti-racist blogs (unless they're run by PoC) and race-relation so-called discussion boards alone. Because, outside of Whites the other main group you see replying to them are Black women. BW pour out our hearts and souls, reveal our hurts and humiliations. And BW always get treated like pure-d-shit on those sites.

I admit, I wrote that from a place of utter frustration and hopelessness.  But it’s a sentiment that’s been brewing for a while now.   I’ve been online for about 15 years now.  And I started going to race relations/discussion boards almost immediately and have been participating in them in some form, one after the other.  Basically, the same thing has happened over and over again, Black women (BW) participate in the discussions disproportionally and our contributions are never ever valued.

How are Black women treated on these sites?  That can be summed up in one word: badly.  While, we do much of the participating, our views are not wanted.  On these sites, BW are treated like the ugly girl at the club.  No one wants to fuck her so no one wants her attention.  People ignore her, bump into her, even knock her down and don’t offer an “Excuse me,” forget about an “I’m sorry.”  If she’s lucky, they’ll just ignore her there on the floor.  But some will actually glare at her and demand she look where she’s going or to keep her ugly ass out of the way.  Others will wonder out loud what her ugly ass was even doing there since no one’d take home a dog like her.

I’ve been on sites where folks posted remarks telling BW not to post so much, accusing us of somehow drowning out or keeping other people, the people they really wanted there and whom they really valued, from commenting.   One was a site for White men ironically to remove White women from the pedestal of perfect womanhood.  As you can guess, the main participants were WM and BW.  Some of the WM complained that BW were commenting too much.

Well, that should have been a hint and a half for BW to cease and desist and just leave that site.  The thing was, the WM there didn’t want to create a more equitable beauty and desirability standard (debate about whether there should be either is a whole nuvvah post) for ALL women of color.  Just certain ones.  And Black women were NOT in that group.  They complained we were keeping non-Black women of color from commenting, particularly Asian women.    Now there BW were actively supporting and cheering on these men for this site and their views, and these men rhapsodized about Asian women every chance they got.  A few even compared BW unfavorably to Asian women.  I was there reading and wondering why Black women didn’t just LEAVE!  I even made a post telling BW to leave since we weren’t wanted and to let their precious Asian women get on there and leave comments and posts of encouragement and support since their opinions are the ones that matter and are valued.

The guy who started the site later shut it down.  He was married to a woman who was half-Iranian, half-White woman (basically, he married the Whitest non-White woman he could find).  He never confronted the guys who blamed BW for there not being more Asian women on the site (and there was one who commented, but she was on BW’s side).  He didn’t say shit to them about telling the BW not to comment.  He said he shut down the blog because he wanted WM to do less venting and bitching on a blog and more 3-D action to bring about a more equitable situation for WoC.  I often wonder if part of the reason for the shutdown was because he didn’t get the women he really wanted to post and back him.  He got us unwanted nigger bitches instead.  I started wondering whether or not BW should be bothered with these online forums then.

Other sites treat BW like the unwanted guest that you only invited for etiquette’s sake and so you wouldn’t look bad, like the friend you really love with the shitty-ass spouse you wish you could push down a long flight of stairs.  If you want the great friend to come, you have to invite the shitty spouse.  If you want to have an anti-racist or race-relations discussion site, you cannot well say “But Black women need NOT attend!”  You’d look like a hypocrite.  You’d look like a racial misogynist.  You’d look like a Black woman hater.  But you’d at least be honest.

That’s how we’re treated on those sites.  At first, our input is welcome, especially if the site is young and trying to get off the ground.  But then once the site grows, it seems that BW’s comments are no longer wanted.   I kept seeing that on various websites.  We go on these sites assuming that the participants, moderators and owners really do want a true discussion about race in America.  When we participate in good faith we find the opposite.  Comments from self-identified BW are treated as if they were noisome static.

We pour out our guts only to have our experiences picked over, questioned, dissected, examined, diminished, dismissed and denied.

I found this on a website called,  “The Black Woman’s Interracial Relationship Circle”:
Spilling their 'guts' for sympathy

And what is this about black women in public forums trying to explain why we are in the situation/spilling their guts to wider parties as if they care. THEY DON’T. Why can’t black women get it, that others just don’t care! There is no general narrative out there in the public space that encourages ‘sympathy’ for black women and her condition, and in addition, many factions are actively working to keep the situation as it is, so that black women do not get to have any piece of this very important public sympathy, which is a currency as it can easily translate into all sorts of policy changes and redirection of resources towards black women.

The constructed discourses out there have told and taught people to not ‘stop’ and contemplate what black women are experiencing nor extend any sympathetic concern in fact, in some quarters black women are seen to be having it sooooo good, that is when they are not themselves busy victimizing the poor henpecked black man or the sensitive little white woman. It is one of the reasons why we black women are ‘kept’ in a particular uncomplimentary narrative, acting out roles that reinforce the notion that we should get no sympathy and don’t deserve it. Indeed general sympathy easily translates into all sorts of practical benefits, which folk are fighting tooth and nail to prevent black women from getting.

Here it is plainly again, ‘Others don’t care about the black woman's plight, and want to maintain a situation where the wider community continues to not care or overlook black women's situation.' So stop crying and spilling your guts in public forums. Many of the other factions are pretending to be listening and in ‘honest discussion’ with you but they are enjoying seeing you upset and sad and of course working yourself into a froth trying to explain how it is, so they can show you just how little they care, and yet black women persist with the ‘explaining’, thinking 'they will get it!

No you, the black woman, need to 'get it' that they have no intention of ‘getting it.’

I know some black women think that they can 'let it all hang out' like other women, and that they should be free to. Well you are free to no doubt but you will pay a price so high for that.
That passage said it all for me.  Of course BW are getting nowhere “spilling our guts” over and over on these websites!  Folks use our pain as entertainment, as pain porn.  They can simultaneously feign sympathy all the while being relieved that they are not us.  They do get off on our suffering because they believe, at bottom, that’s what we get for being Black women.  And meanwhile, after all of this not a damn thing changes for Black women online or in the 3-D world.

I’ve had the same experiences and feelings regarding even so-called interracial dating and romance discussion sites (and I mean discussion sites, not sites that match you up with people).  I’ve always been interested in interracial dating, and when I first got on the net, I found interracial dating sites.   The first hard lesson I got was to avoid general interracial sites.  They were dominated by Black men and White women who constantly talked major shit about Black women and how much we sucked and how superior White women were, and how it was understandable that Black men didn’t want us, blah, blah, blah.  Even on sites that didn’t have that, you could count on a White woman sweeping in with the inevitable question of why we evil, unwanted, unattractive, jealous, Black bitches hated so on her and her Black man and their Great Forbidden Love.

So then I decided only to go on those sites expressly for BW interested in interracial dating.  I got an eye opening there as well.  First, the men were mostly White (though every now and then you did get a Black man letting us darkie gals know that we were just fooling ourselves and that no one wanted our rhino-hided, she-beast asses) and the women, of course were Black.  In many of the forums, BW seemed to dominate the conversation.  I was left wondering where were all these men that were supposedly so interested in us?  Why weren’t they responding?  When they did, it was often one of two types of comments.

The first one is rhapsodizing about BW’s physical charms.  It was all about our big butts and dark skin.  It was rare to hear them say anything about our hair (except they didn’t care how we wore it and napptural hair didn’t bother them), and even more rare to hear anything about our spirits, our minds, our personalities.  It was all about loving the luscious booties and how the skin contrasts between them and BW turned them on.

The second was about how difficult it was to approach BW, ask us out and even begin a relationship with us.  I had to quit a Facebook group for BW/WM because all the WM ever seemed to do was whine about how haaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrd it was to approach BW!  I bet these are the SAME WM who have no problem barging all up on non-BW whether their attentions are wanted or not.  They'll speak that shitty high school Spanish they remember to Latinas only to be coldly told that the chick in question does not speak Spanish.  They'll roll up on an Asian woman and speak some busted up Chinese, Japanese or Korean shit they learned from watching anime only to have ol' girl let them know, "Sorry, dude. WRONG ASIAN ETHNICITY!"  But these White guys don't let their rejections faze them.  They just move on to the next one.

But with BW, they're all in a-tangle!  I really think they cannot face even the idea of potential rejection from us because it wounds their egos so.  Just think; the lowliest creature on the planet doesn't want you!  They cannot face up to that.

And it’s really about that, BW’s lack of social capital.   Compare that to WM/Asian women (AW)’s boards.  There the WM are the overwhelming number of posters.  There may not even be one AW posting there.  That doesn’t stop the WM there from rhapsodizing about how wonderful AW are and even how they’re superior to WW.  AW have the social capital to have WM online drooling over them.  They don’t even have to be present, much less be online begging WM to notice them and love them.  But yet again, here are BW busting our asses for people who just ain’t that into us.

This is why I’m for BW removing ourselves from these forums.  All we’re doing is spilling our guts, putting our hearts and souls out there and all they’re being is trampled upon.  Maybe discussed a little and then promptly forgotten.  If they want others on their websites supporting them, giving them a high-five then let those others do just that.  And if you’re a BW and you DARE criticize them, then you should just prepare to be treated like everything but a child of the Creator.  How dare a lowly li’l niglet like you dare criticize her betters!  No, let the folks whom they want, whom they value do the dirty work.

And these same sites often do not care that they wear out the BW that support and comment on them to the point where those members leave and never comment again.  Like I said, we’re not who they want.  We’re not who they value.  So what if some nigger bitch is tired and frustrated over their shenanigans.  Maybe she’ll finally go away and take some of these other nigger bitches with her! Maybe future nigger bitches will finally get the hint and stay the hell away from their precious site.

I’m not saying that BW should retire from the internet or should refrain from discussing these issues or any issues that affect us.  I’m saying we need to understand that spilling our guts in public will get us nowhere because no one cares about BW.  I’m not saying that we do not deserve better treatment on these sites.  I’m saying we’re just not going to get it.  It’s best for us not to waste our precious time and even more precious energy and feelings to be disappointed, hurt and humiliated over and over again.  I’m saying we need to use our finite resources to help ourselves and other BW.  I’m saying we should use the internet for our uplift, not in a futile attempt to tilt at the windmills of others having sympathy for us.

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Suggested reading: "What Happened to the Honey?"

44 comments:

  1. They'll speak that shitty high school Spanish they remember to Latinas only to be coldly told that the chick in question does not speak Spanish. They'll roll up on an Asian woman and speak some busted up Chinese, Japanese or Korean shit they learned from watching anime only to have ol' girl let them know, "Sorry, dude. WRONG ASIAN ETHNICITY!" But these White guys don't let their rejections faze them. They just move on to the next one.

    But with BW, they're all in a-tangle!


    Brilliantly stated, as usual.

    The BW on these sites need to simply withdraw - from all of them. And they need to change their attitude about these matters. They shouldn't get mad and resentful and start weeping online - and offline - when they get ignored by assholes. They should take it as a cue to simply withdraw from the situation.

    The first rule of dealing draptos is to not engage. Assess, analyze, and learn, but do not engage. The BW on these sites need to remember there's a whole wide world outside White America and Black American men and to stop doing the chasing.

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  2. I REALLY feel that, Ankh.

    As for doing the chasing, I agree with Sherri Shepherd and what that excerpt in my guest post said. BW may THINK they can do what other women do and get away with it like other women can. We. Can. NOT. Sherri Shepherd mentioning how non-BW can run up to guys and hit on them in the club and how BW are seen when we do the same.

    Yet on those sites, WM are CONSTANTLY telling BW to make the first move(s). I got tired of telling BW "DON'T DO IT!" and of the times when I dared approach a WM I was interested in and how ignant each and every one of them behaved and how they insulted me to my face for what I'd done. Besides that, I saw the WM there basically taking the lazy route and abdicating any responsibility to establish a relationship with BW. Plus they're making BW the "men" in the relationships by relegating US as the persuers instead of them. It also showed me what they thought of BW, that we weren't worth the time or effort to get to know us or seen as women to be treated as such. I mean, gods forbid their buddies see them actually paying court to a Negress!

    It's one thing to be open to meeting someone and giving off those signals, but these dudes wanted BW basically to pull down our panties, throw our skirts over our heads and fall onto our backs as a "sign" that we're interested.

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  3. Another ironic thing was that there were guys there whining about how haaaaaaaaaaard it was to approach BW on an IR-board for the WM/BW combo that was dominated in posts, threads and comments BY BW who were obviously interested in dating WM. Yet not a ONE of those men EVER chatted with, flirted with or made any kind of attempt to approach any of THOSE women online or in 3-D!

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  4. I never understood why BW respond SO OFTEN on those sites, they really are looking for approval/empathy/some'love'... where it is never given.

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  5. I know that it likely isn't worth a lot, but BW have produced most of the best-written and most relevant comments and articles I've read in such places. It's inexcusable that such thought-provoking pieces have been at such an emotional cost. Thank you to Witchsistah and Ankh for this post, and for all of the posts I've seen from both of you. Sincerely, thank you.

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  6. I need your T-shirt!!! It's brilliant!

    Your post is dead on the money. I can't see where I can add anything beneficial. Damn... it's just so fucked up.

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  7. From the blog "Alienated Conclusions":

    " I have the right to point out the hypocrisy in liberal, feminist, progressive and anti-racist circles who excuse their apathy of black women's circumstances because of pathologies such as white guilt that only apply to black men, and to prioritize how they are victimized in society."

    This was a part of a post called "The Black Girl's Manifesto: The Basic Rights of Femininity"

    http://nerdsevolving.blogspot.com/2010/04/basic-rights-of-femininity.html

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  8. I am not a man so I have no idea why they refuse to approach black women, even when they are interested. One must wonder what "being interested in black women" means to them. It's just another form of dehumanization.

    The other thing I don't get is white women and black men who talk trash about black women. Ok, they (black men and white women) like each other, good for them. But why do they have to talk bad about black women? I would never want to date a man who talks bad about women who look like his mother or sisters. It's disrespectful to say the least. But I guess white women are so obsessed with the idea they should be on pedestal, no matter what- which makes them blind to the fact a guy who talks bad about women of his own race is not a perfect guy to date. Also, many white women talk about being feminists- so where are they on all those boards, supporting black women?

    I understand the wish not to waste your energy, word and emotions on people who are obviously not interested in listening what you have to say. Forum's title (interracial dating, anti-racist) obviously doesn't mean much, if anything. But I hope there are places all over the Internet where black women can be heard and treated with respect they deserve.

    PS-Is it ok to ask for some links? I visit many race oriented blogs, but not forums, or interracial dating forums.

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  9. I'll admit I've observed the same dynamics taking place on both interracial sites and anti-racist sites. All it takes is one comment from a non black man expressing interest in black women and his site will become a instant hit flooded with admiring black women.

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  10. Thank you WitchSistah so much for writing this! I'm pretty many people reading here have frequented the same sites before, and it makes me cringe to see so many (obviously) smart, talented, beautiful women crabbing for the attentions of some apathetic White guy on the Internet.

    And don't get me started on race blogs. I must be psychic, because I can predict how 99% of these conversations go:

    1. Black woman relates her experiences.

    2. Other Black woman cosign and support her.

    3. White person pops up expressing doubt or disbelief and goes on to write a treatise on all of the other ways said experience could be interpreted.

    4. Black woman patiently and calmly reiterates her point. (White folks are silent.)

    5. (This step is optional, but happens more often than I'd like.) Another Black woman plays the role of the "dissenter", making a point to describe all of the ways in which she's different from those other complaining Black women.

    6. Everyone high-fives and grins, except the original Black woman (and those like her) who's been silenced, yet again.

    7. Rinse and repeat.

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  11. Electricafro7/22/10, 5:21 PM

    "All it takes is one comment from a non black man expressing interest in black women and his site will become a instant hit flooded with admiring black women."

    TRUTH. I've even seen some of the women thanking these men for getting hard from looking at Black women like it's some sort of honor.

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  12. 5. (This step is optional, but happens more often than I'd like.) Another Black woman plays the role of the "dissenter", making a point to describe all of the ways in which she's different from those other complaining Black women.


    Ah, yes. The "Good Darkie." S/He always shows up to make us "Bad Darkies" act right, i.e. kowtow to White folks and White supremacy. S/He lets White people off the hook for their racism.

    Most of the discussion on those blogs is really quibbling and White folks trying to suss out how much racist shit they can get away with before PoC call "foul." Eventually you'll get a White person demanding a short, easy list of acceptable behaviors that cover each and every PoC on the planet regardless of race, ethnicity, group history or personal history. Basically they just want to figure out how to do what they've always done, but not have the culluds complain about it.

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  13. Basically they just want to figure out how to do what they've always done, but not have the culluds complain about it.

    A classic sociopathic tendency.

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  14. Excellent post, definitely a favourite among all the blog posts I've ever read!

    Our pain really is porn for them, it's one reason why I'm such a cold detached person both online and irl. If they're going to have the temerity to act like I'm not a human being with thoughts, emotions (other than angry, bitchy and sassy), likes & dislikes, etc. either way then I may as well protect myself and keep you at arm's length, or farther if possible.

    About the Good Darkie, isn't it so interesting how the only opinions from POC that White people ever seem to agree with are those of Massa's favourite Negroes? All us other 'My name is not Toby, I am Kunta Kinte' types are just always wrong.

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  15. One must wonder what "being interested in black women" means to them.

    They want hot nasty African Voodoo Ghetto Pussy, that's what.

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  16. ventually you'll get a White person demanding a short, easy list of acceptable behaviors

    because it is oh so hard on them to treat us like human beings and we need to make it less complicated for them to be humane

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  17. either way then I may as well protect myself and keep you at arm's length, or farther if possible.

    How do I co-sign thee? Let me count the ways.

    because it is oh so hard on them to treat us like human beings and we need to make it less complicated for them to be humane

    Like I said: sociopathic.

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  18. They want hot nasty African Voodoo Ghetto Pussy, that's what.

    Not only 9 times out of 10 is that all they want, but they have the nerve to want the extra ego boost of having us BEG them to take it!

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  19. Rochelle,

    I'm like you when I'm out and about doing business or conducting it on the phone. The Man says I look and sound harsh when I do this. I say I just try to stay as neutral as I can. I don't see why I have to grin and "show teef" and be all sugar and honey for the privilege of giving someone MY damn money! I told him, he didn't know how many times I DID smile and act and sound all pleasant only to be treated like shit, and that was me as a CUSTOMER, said person giving THEM MY damn money!

    Nowadays, I figure me giving you money for a service is all you need out of me. It's a contract; I give you money, you give me goods or services in good order. Want to make me smile? Do that shit right the FIRST time and don't give me ANY damn shade.

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  20. @ All,

    And have you ever heard the praises and cooing after some WM posts something like, "I used to date this beautiful dark-skinned Black woman and she was good at sex and everything!" The hell? Since when do you win a trophy for finding someone who looks like me attractive? You would think the man cured cancer the way some heap it on.

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  21. Not only 9 times out of 10 is that all they want, but they have the nerve to want the extra ego boost of having us BEG them to take it!

    Hey, us evil niggro bitches ouughta be grateful anybody paying attention to our trifling asses!

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  22. It is highly annoying how many of them seem to expect some extra special attention from me. I just keep my face neutral and ignore them. If they smile at me I'll smile back but many of them feel entitled to some shucking and jiving. I just want to run my errands and go to my exercise classes in peace without the random hostility.

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  23. Is it just me, or are there a greater number of creepy stalker types on IR dating sites and blogs than you'd expect from the general population?

    Of course, since we Black women are rhino-hided, adamantium-skeletoned, teflon-coated she-beasts who can destroy any enemy with a blast of Angry Black Woman Attitude, I guess we're supposed to be glad that some dude is stalking us.

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  24. Have to say this is somewhat of a surprise to me (emphasis on the some what part). I don't go on interracial dating sites or any dating sites or facebook group or anything like that so...yeah. As for anti-racist blogs run by white people I usually leave a comment and bounce and maybe return to see where the discussion has gone the only one I visiton a regular is SWPD and I have noticed that dynamic going on in some posts.

    As for those interacial dating sites you are always going to see more on the other half, I remember reading an article about it that I wish I bookmarked. I have not seen that whole flooded traffic online dating sites becasue I don't visit them but one time I was talking to my friend who is Albanian and he was talking to me about his relationship troubles (Always does like I am his therapist) and his girlfriend happens to be black, matter of face most of his past girlfriends were black, anywho one boy who he is friends with get's into our convo and then out of no where says he dated a black girl once and then looked at me like he wanted me to pat him on the head give him a cookie or a medal or swoon at that info.

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  25. @Witchsistah

    Seriously, I can't count the number of times my neutral face has been read as standoffish/pissed off/grumpy because it is, of course, the default emotional state of Black women.

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  26. @Rochelle

    Ain't that the truth, I went through a phase last year where I was just emotionless in one of my classes becasue my teacher pissed me off so I talked monotone and gave short answers and looked straight through him. All that because one day when I was sad because of a death in the family he said I looked very mean.

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  27. All that because one day when I was sad because of a death in the family he said I looked very mean.

    Oh...fuck him.

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  28. All that because one day when I was sad because of a death in the family he said I looked very mean.

    The ruddy bastard! If you were a white woman, he would have pulled you aside after class and gently asked if something was wrong, but us nigger bitches can't possibly experience human things like loss or pain.

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  29. Ladies, next time some unimaginative dip-shit mistakes any expression on your face for anger or meanness, just look at them wearily and say, "Is that the BEST you can fucking do?"

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  30. speaking of anti-racist sites, i sort of spoke my mind more than usual here.

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  31. @ RVCBard.

    Yes, I read that. Quite epic. Thanks for linking Moi, by the way. That should draw a most interesting group of folk here....

    ...now that swpd is on hiatus and white folks can't use us to feel better about not being black, they're coming out the woodwork.

    at least that's how it looks to me.

    more than a few black women who were active and insightful and added some substance to the blog got fed up and left.

    nobody bothered to wonder where we went.

    or what it would take to bring us back. so much for our valuable input.

    not so much as a "how can we do better?"

    or even a "fuck you and don't come back."

    yet the white guy who's trying gets spread a bit thin, and people are coming out of the woodwork offering words of support and encouragement as he takes care of himself.

    where was this when black women were being sacrificed to the god of white self-esteem?


    Damn.

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  32. I was wondering where y'all went.
    glad I can still read some of your posts, though I'll just be lurking i think.

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  33. @jas0nburns

    I really hope you lurk. In fact, I hope you lurk so much that I forget that you even know this site exists. Your username alone brings to mind all the emotional baggage that SWPD thrust on me everytime I went there.

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  34. jas0nburns,

    Lemme start this off by demanding you, "LURK, WHITE HONEY BITCH, LURK!" and STAY yo' ass in lurk mode.

    But I don't think you'll be lurking for long. I think you'll soon be gone to tell/warn other WP not to visit that den of nigger she-beasts that is Ankh's blog. And we'd be much obliged to you if you do.

    Because, see, much unlike macon's and Abagond's blogs, this blog is NOT for the benefit of White folks. This blog is not about teaching WP SHIT about themselves. This blog is for PoC to come and realize that no, we're not crazy when they see racism even if a WP is trying to gaslight them out of it. We are not lying, being oversenstive or playing the race card.

    This blog is about letting PoC know who and what WP are to spare others from even bothering with trying to get through to the vast majority of you. At least to let PoC know that YOUR problem is no way our faults. Your lack of empathy is REAL. And it is a psych issue as well as a moral and spiritual one that YOU all need to handle, not us. M. Gibson wrote about WP's lack of empathy at that other place. A study was made to confirm what PoC have always known about you all. This blog reaffirms that we are not being excessive or unfair when we wonder WTF is WRONG with WP that you all cannot get along with ANYONE on the whole fuckin' globe! We wonder this even when you try to convince us you do have empathy, but we somehow haven't earned it. When we counter that you insist then that fine, you don't have empathy and NORMAL people don't. So first, you try to convince us you have a soul and then try to convince us that your soulless state is not only normal but the ideal.

    And finally, you're not dealing with a mod who wants to try and discuss or work shit out with you. She's not going to give you the benefit of the doubt or play devil's advocate or allow you to. She's just going to zap your comment into internet oblivion before it even hits the viewing page, use you as an example of typical, White, sociopathic behavior and/or just ban your ass. She's not trying to create a democracy or a safe haven for WP here. You all have the rest of the whole damn internet for that. This is not a democracy. It's a dictatorship, and she is La Ducia.

    And that goes for boot-lickin', "good darkies" of any stripe who want to come here and talk about how they're "better" than such and such a group (even if said group is their own). Or who want to show how they're not like "those darkies" over there who are so hostile to the nice White folk who are just tryna help us dumb culluds.

    Yeah, you're not going to be here long. You're going to quit this place, pout-stomp out of here, taking your bat and ball and going home some someone did on his own blog (I've never seen anyone flounce their own damn blog before).

    I just suggest you do so sooner than later and don't tell us shit about it.

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  35. Ankh, RVCBard,

    What you wrote is basically all that shit I wrote up there condensed and much more poetic. Like I said, we're not the ones they want. We're like the ugly chick at the club that keeps talking to a guy who is trying to get with the women he REALLY wants. We're just impeding him from reaching his goal and being noisome in the process. After all, if we're seen talking to him, the REAL babes won't approach.

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  36. Part of me wants to see if somebody's gonna roll up in here and try to start some shit, even though I specifically linked to the comments policy here.

    And they say niggaz can't read.

    Oh, and on the point about this space not being for WP to learn about themselves - HELL YEAH!!!

    I swear, if I hear/read "I learned so much" one more time, I'm gonna start sending out invoices. Teachers get paid to deal with spoiled-ass knuckle-headed motherfuckers who don't wanna learn (not enough, but still). I'm too broke to deal with this shit for free.

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  37. RVCBard,

    Girl you know WP believe we should give them our lives out of the goodness of our darkie hearts. Expecting recompense for all this trouble and work? Why that's too much like RECIPROCITY for them!

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  38. I'm a lurker, and I'll be back to lurking in a minute, but I just wanted to say...

    COSIGN on everything y'all said, I love y'all, and I'm coming here everyday.

    I've had the same experience of pouring out my heart on a site, only to be rebuffed, getting disgusted and leaving, which is why I don't post too much in unsafe spaces anymore. I simply can't be bothered. My emotional and psychological well-being is worth more than that.

    Also, I would like to give a shout-out, lol, to Witchsistah, RVCBard, and, of course, our lovely host Ankh. I have enjoyed your work elsewhere and will continue doing so.

    **back to lurking**

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  39. As usual, Witch, you have left me flabbergasted with your astute observations and commentary. You have just articulated the reason why I avoid those websites (and why I choose to remain limited in my innanet activities). There's really no point in screaming our guts out to people who publicly claim they want to hear from us, but actually desire the opposite. It's like we can't win for losing, so there's no point in playing the game.

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  40. Menelik Charles11/4/10, 11:38 PM

    @ Witchsister

    was the name of this site "White Women Suck!" by any chance?

    Do tell.

    Thanks

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  41. wow. i just found this. i found SWPD when it was already 'on hiatus' and i saw your comment, witchsistah, about the space simply NOT being safe for BW. there are too many examples confirming this to mention, and, as you said, this pattern seems to repeat in many (even 'anti-racist' or 'feminist' blogs).
    i want to comment that i didn't think of much of SWPD until i started reading the comments, and found a community predominantly comprised of BW making comments much more insightful and less kitten-pawed than those in the 'body' of the blog. i also found my way here, to RVCB's play, to ank's guestposts on abagond.
    i DON'T think a space or conversation that is safe for BW and reflects their feelings and perspectives need be too threatening for WP- unless said WP are hypersensitive, whining and closed-minded.
    maybe this is a case of: if they mind, they don't matter, and if they matter, they don't mind.

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  42. I am so late for this post. Exams drain me. lol
    What has been discussed by you, Witchsistah, Ankh and the commenters has been things I've been thinking about for years which is why I've never participated in the those "so-called" anti-racist sites. I knew that when unmonitored shit would fly and Black Women get hit with arrow. I observed and I realized how heartless these wolves in sheep's clothing really are. I was waiting for something like this blog to come along so these issues can be discussed properly. I was too fearful and doing it on my own. I praise you courage.

    @Withchsistah

    Thank you for you're insight.

    @Ankh

    Thank you for this blog

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  43. I'm a lurker and was introduced to this blog initially through some of your fanfiction. However, I found myself coming back here often after a long day. After reading the posts & comments on this blog I'm able to take a deep breath, refocus and once again reaffirm that I am not crazy. I didn't realize what I was looking for at the time but now I get it. I needed a safe place to land and I've found it here. So, Thank you!
    -Charla

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